Bloggers Diane Ravitch and Rick Hess take very different views of the Wisconsin protests over legislation to limit collective bargaining rights for teachers. Ravitch started with her post I Stand With the Teachers of Wisconsin. Hess countered with I Stand With Governor Walker. Where do you stand, and do you see any merit in the other side’s arguments?

I Stand With the Teachers of Wisconsin

By Diane Ravitch on February 22, 2011 9:39 AM 

Dear Deborah,

As I write, thousands of teachers are staging a protest in the state capitol in Wisconsin. Others stand with them, including the Green Bay Packers, other public-sector workers, and even public-sector workers who are not affected by the proposed legislation, namely, firefighters and police. The teachers and other public-sector employees are speaking out against Gov. Scott Walker's effort to destroy their collective-bargaining rights. Gov. Walker demanded that the teachers pay more for their health benefits and their pension benefits, and they have agreed to do so. But that's not all he wants. He wants to destroy the union.

I wrote an article about this contretemps for CNN.com, not realizing that the teachers had already conceded the governor's demands on money issues. The confrontation now is solely about whether public employees have the right to bargain collectively and to have a collective voice. Monday's New York Times made clear, both in a column by Paul Krugman and in its news coverage, that the union is fighting for its survival, not benefits.

It's time to ask: Why should teachers have unions? I am not a member of a union, and I have never belonged to a union, but here is what I see. From the individual teacher's point of view, it is valuable to have an organization to turn to when you feel you have been treated unfairly, one that will supply you with assistance, even a lawyer, one that advocates for improvement in your standard of living. From society's point of view, it is valuable to have unions to fight for funding for public education and for smaller class sizes and for adequate compensation for teachers. I recently visited Arizona, a right-to-work state, and parents there complained to me about classes of 30 for children in 1st and 2nd grades, and even larger numbers for older students; they complained that the starting salary for teachers was only $26,000 and that it is hard to find strong college graduates to enter teaching when wages are so low.

I have often heard union critics complain that contracts are too long, too detailed, too prescriptive. I have noticed that unions don't write their own contracts. There are always two sides that negotiate a contract and sign it. If an administration is so weak that it signs a contract that is bad for kids, bad for the district's finances, or bad for education, then shame on them.

The fight in Wisconsin now is whether public-sector unions should have any power to bargain at all. The fight is not restricted to Wisconsin; it is taking place in many other states, including New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Illinois. The battle has already been lost in other states.

I have been wondering if advocates of corporate school reform, such as Bill Gates, Eli Broad, and Michelle Rhee will come to the aid of the teachers in Wisconsin. I have been wondering if President Obama and Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, who were quick to applaud the firing of teachers in Central Falls, R.I., will now step forward to support the teachers in Wisconsin. I have been wondering if Secretary Duncan, who only a few days earlier had led a much-publicized national conversation in Denver about the importance of collaboration between unions and management, will weigh in to support the teachers. I am ever hopeful, but will take care not to hold my breath.

If there is no organized force to advocate for public education in the state capitols of this nation, our children and our schools will suffer. That's the bottom line. And that's why I stand with the teachers of Wisconsin. I know you do, too.

Diane

I Stand With Governor Walker

By Rick Hess on February 24, 2011 9:27 AM 

My friend Diane Ravitch wrote the other day on her "Bridging Differences" blog: "I Stand With the Teachers of Wisconsin." I'd be happy to "stand with" Wisconsin's teachers if it entailed promoting a dynamic, rewarding teaching profession. But that's not what Diane is referring to. Rather, she's talking about "standing" behind public employee collective bargaining, while denouncing Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's efforts to reel in unaffordable benefits and check union influence. On that score, I suspect few RHSU readers will be surprised to hear I stand with Governor Walker. For my take on Wisconsin, and the problems with public sector collective bargaining, see yesterday's piece "The Big Payback."

Public employee unions, which have become one of the nation's most aggressive and influential special interest groups in recent decades, are unchecked by the competitive constraints and self-interested ownership that help to balance out private sector unions. In his forthcoming book Special Interest, for instance, Stanford's Terry Moe points out that the Michigan Education Association has distributed a 40-page instructional manual for local leaders that's entitled "Electing Your Own Employer, It's as Easy as 1, 2, 3." And as one high-ranking state union official told me when I wrote Revolution at the Margins, "We knew the school system wasn't moving to Mexico," so there was no reason to work with the state negotiator on establishing a prudent salary structure.

The resulting overpromise is easy to see. For instance, when it comes to teacher pensions, there is a nearly $500 billion (and growing) funding shortfall across the states, and educator benefits have consistently grown as a percent of salaries--with districts and states contributing far more to teacher retirements than employers do in the private sector.

Indeed, while Diane lauds Wisconsin's public employees for accepting some of Walker's proposed cuts, it's far too easy for union sympathizers to forget that these same employees have been resisting the proposed cuts--and have suddenly become amenable to concessions on health care and pensions because Walker's effort to limit their collective bargaining rights has helped to bring home the severity of the situation. To suggest the unions would be willing to contemplate the desired concessions if Walker was not pushing so aggressively is, I think, naïve.

The Wisconsin fight is the opening shot in what is going to be a series of similar efforts. After all, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities reports that 29 states are looking at projected 2012 budgets that have shortfalls of ten percent or more (as a percentage of the 2011 budget). Illinois, New Jersey, and Texas are among the states looking at shortfalls of 30 percent or more. The bottom line: in many places, things are going to get worse before they get better. And I'll stand with the governors whose response includes trying to trim out-of-control benefits and dial back the chokehold that public unions have on the public's purse.

Which side do you take?  Please add your comments.